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Author Topic: Rule Changes  (Read 32141 times)
JoeHundredaire
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« on: Sun, 16 Oct 11 23:35:34 »

After considerable discussion by the moderators over the last two months, we've changed one rule and added two new ones to the site's Rules page.

Revised:
Given that both rules dealt with the content of stories posted on this site, Rules #4 and #5 have been merged down into just one rule, now Rule #4.

New:
5. Users are not permitted to open multiple accounts. All stories and reviews must be posted under the same pen name.

18. While we recognize that not everyone will like every story written on this site, please conduct yourself with some degree of decorum if you choose to review a story that you do not like. While constructive criticism is welcome and even encouraged, ad hominem attacks and other unconstructive negativity are not permitted.

While I imagine most of you will find it rather ironic that I'm posting the addition of Rule #18, I'd like to point out that until now there's been no actual rule against it. At one point, Jinni mentioned a distaste for it and we've tried to keep things to a dull roar here just for site unity, but it's never actually been against the rules to leave a flame for any given story. We've only acted when a continuous pattern of abusive behavior have made it clear that a reader (or author) needs to rethink how they act if they wish to continue being a part of this community. Now it's a rule. And we'll be enforcing it.

If you currently do violate #5 for any reason (and we've been given several by different authors in the last two months as we uncover them), please contact us to have your multiple accounts merged.
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« Reply #1 on: Mon, 17 Oct 11 20:14:47 »

Thank you so much for the no-flames rule.  I deeply, deeply appreciate the chance not to have to deal with that crap anymore and am so thankful to the staff for their vigilance and help to us, the community of this site.
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« Reply #2 on: Thu, 20 Oct 11 21:18:49 »

I think the rule regarding the flames is a good one. Have you considered allowing authors the option to delete the truly aggressive flames? Of course the author would have to give proper justification, not that they only want positive responses on their stories. There also the times when reviewers accidentally double post the same review. It would be nice to have this option.

Thanks
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« Reply #3 on: Thu, 20 Oct 11 22:34:22 »

I think it's too bad there are enough jerks out there to need an anti-flame rule.
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« Reply #4 on: Fri, 21 Oct 11 00:03:53 »

I think the rule regarding the flames is a good one. Have you considered allowing authors the option to delete the truly aggressive flames? Of course the author would have to give proper justification, not that they only want positive responses on their stories. There also the times when reviewers accidentally double post the same review. It would be nice to have this option.
While it's been debated in the (far) past, we're not AFF.Net or one of several other archives. If (and I stress if) a situation arises that you feel deserves moderator attention, we're available to mediate disputes between readers and authors. We also handle double posts if the reviewer or author contacts us. It's fairest that way; otherwise, you could end up with stories with nothing but positive, glowing reviews even though they're really not that great.

I think it's too bad there are enough jerks out there to need an anti-flame rule.
Well, the rule is multifaceted if you look at it closely. We're welcoming and encouraging critical feedback, which I and a number of other authors have noticed has waned a bit in recent years out of concern that you will get in trouble just because someone doesn't like what you say. By laying out what gets you in trouble, you know that you can say what you want to say... as long as a certain line remains uncrossed. And it goes both ways; the new rule regulates both what goes into the Review box and the Review Comment box. Just because you're an author doesn't mean you can be a dick and attack your readers, just as readers can't be dicks and attack authors just for giggles.
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« Reply #5 on: Fri, 21 Oct 11 02:47:26 »

You're right, it does go both ways.  And it's probably not even an issue for the majority.  I just meant that it's too bad there were enough people (Reviewers and Authors) causing problems that something that should be common courtesy has to be listed on the rules page.
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« Reply #6 on: Fri, 21 Oct 11 10:58:37 »

You're right, it does go both ways.  And it's probably not even an issue for the majority.  I just meant that it's too bad there were enough people (Reviewers and Authors) causing problems that something that should be common courtesy has to be listed on the rules page.

Sadly, that's why we have laws... not for the majority of people who don't commit crimes or do bad things, but for that small subset that do.  I'm all for freedom, but a few well thought out rules/regs/laws allow for a floor below which people aren't allowed to go and still continue having that freedom.  If you tell me that you hate my story and why, that's fine.  If you call me names and make me feel threatened and belittled (and most reasonable people would feel attacked), then you've crossed a line and violated the mutual compact that makes useful interaction possible.  

I think one reason TtH works as well as it does is that it has clear (but not rigid) lines and standards.  No one is looking over my shoulder to slap me on the wrist at every turn, but there are boundaries for writing and for conduct that make it a 'safe' place to post work and to be.  I'm very grateful.

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« Reply #7 on: Fri, 21 Oct 11 13:13:52 »

most sniped for brevity.

I think it's too bad there are enough jerks out there to need an anti-flame rule.
Well, the rule is multifaceted if you look at it closely. We're welcoming and encouraging critical feedback, which I and a number of other authors have noticed has waned a bit in recent years out of concern that you will get in trouble just because someone doesn't like what you say. By laying out what gets you in trouble, you know that you can say what you want to say... as long as a certain line remains uncrossed. And it goes both ways; the new rule regulates both what goes into the Review box and the Review Comment box. Just because you're an author doesn't mean you can be a dick and attack your readers, just as readers can't be dicks and attack authors just for giggles.
[/quote]

It does not have to mean a change in the climate, it could just mean a increase total people who come to the site.  A poor but adequate example.  It really does not matter to much that one out of a thousand cars run a stop sign in the middle of Kansas where only 20 people live, but if the same percentage was to run a red light in downtown New York a lot more accidents would accrue.

I do think that this site is getting more popular so we have more people who would flame in total numbers even if the actual percentage did not change.
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« Reply #8 on: Sat, 05 Nov 11 03:13:15 »

I'm not entirely happy about the rule saying that one writer can't have multiple user IDs. History is full of writers who have used multiple pseudonyms, for stories written in different genres, or targeted to different demographics, or just because they didn't want anybody to be able to track down their home addresses. Robert Heinlein, Isaac Asimov, John Campbell, Steven King, and John Varley have all published stories using different names, for different reasons. JK Rowling has made noises about publishing her next book under a pseudonym, so that it will be judged on its own merits, without comparison to Harry Potter.

If people are creating sock puppet accounts, to pump up the reviews, and recommendations for their stories, that's one thing, and I can understand a rule saying that you shouldn't do that, but in that case, you should have a rule against sock puppets, not multiple pseudonyms.

And how do you enforce this? If another account is created, how do you prove that it belongs to someone who already has an account?

You might notice that two writers are both publishing from the same IP address, but maybe writers JohnSmith and JaneDoe are brother and sister, sharing the same computer and internet connection. You may see that they tend to make the same grammatical mistakes, but they respond by saying that they've gone to the same schools, and had the same teachers, and learned all their bad habits from the same sources. How do you prove they're lying, without demanding that they give you their home address, and sending someone there to check if there are really two different people at that address?

Some of the objections to multiple pseudonyms, such as "using a different pseudonym for slash stories is homophobic" should be followed through to their logical conclusion: All pseudonyms used by writers of slash are homophobic.  If you write a slash story using anything other than your real name then you are a homophobe.  If we want to discourage this sort of thing then we should demand that all TTH writers give their full, real names (with home address and phone numbers) so that people who don't like their stories can tell them so, in person.

Don Sample -- My real name.
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« Reply #9 on: Sat, 05 Nov 11 12:07:35 »

I'm not entirely happy about the rule saying that one writer can't have multiple user IDs. History is full of writers who have used multiple pseudonyms, for stories written in different genres, or targeted to different demographics, or just because they didn't want anybody to be able to track down their home addresses. Robert Heinlein, Isaac Asimov, John Campbell, Steven King, and John Varley have all published stories using different names, for different reasons. JK Rowling has made noises about publishing her next book under a pseudonym, so that it will be judged on its own merits, without comparison to Harry Potter.
You are none of these people. Don't be egotistical enough to compare yourself to them.

If we want to discourage this sort of thing then we should demand that all TTH writers give their full, real names (with home address and phone numbers) so that people who don't like their stories can tell them so, in person.
Cough yours up and we'll get right on collecting that information, Don.

EDIT: As for enforcement? We do monitor by IP address, talk to accounts we see consistently stacking up from nothing but the same IP address or addresses along with the same or similar email addresses, and hope the person is being honest. Unlike you, Don, most users are not troublemakers nor do they go out of their way to start arguments just for the sake of starting arguments. They are happy to comply with the rules set down as requirements for users of the site. When all was said and done, we haven't had a single user decide to take their ball and go home because we told them they had to condense their accounts down into a single user name. As a matter of fact, we've had a dozen or so people VOLUNTARILY coming forward to say "Well, I primarily use Account A and I have Account B for this reason, but if I have to choose I'd prefer to keep Account A so merge B into A please." And that's the end of that.
« Last Edit: Sat, 05 Nov 11 17:49:27 by JoeHundredaire » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #10 on: Sat, 05 Nov 11 16:35:07 »

Don, I agree 100% with everything you said. Unfortunately, the rest of the moderating team that took part in this debate value don't see this for the invasion of privacy that you and I seem to.

Joe, if you think Don is troublemaker, maybe we ought to count up the number of people of have complained about or left the site over something you've done, and compare it to the number of complaints about something Don has done?

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« Reply #11 on: Sat, 05 Nov 11 16:42:45 »

Joe, if you think Don is troublemaker, maybe we ought to count up the number of people of have complained about or left the site over something you've done, and compare it to the number of complaints about something Don has done?

I love you J!!!!  
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« Reply #12 on: Sat, 05 Nov 11 16:54:01 »

Don, I agree 100% with everything you said. Unfortunately, the rest of the moderating team that took part in this debate value don't see this for the invasion of privacy that you and I seem to.
Don is utterly unaffected by a ruling that NOBODY who IS affected by it is complaining about. If nobody on the site who has a second, third, fourth, or fifth account is upset when we're talking to them and working things out amicably, I fail to see a problem with any of the PURELY THEORETICAL grounds that Don is trying to start arguments over.
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« Reply #13 on: Sat, 05 Nov 11 18:45:11 »

Right then, since Jay wants me to put a publicly posted reason out there as to why we're doing this (mostly because he was on the side of the "nays" when the votes were totaled up and the "ayes" had it, meaning he wants nothing to do with this), I'll copy and paste an earlier post and expand on it.

To directly quote something from the discussion we moderators had before codifying the "one person, one account" rule:
Quote from: JoeHundredaire
Aren't we then essentially promoting institutional homophobia by allowing secondary accounts purely for homosexual-centric fiction? "It's cool to be ashamed of being tolerant of alternative lifestyles! Sure, you can create a second account to hide the fact that you write that." That just seems... distasteful... to me.
To me, the same sentiment is also true when it comes to writing and posting most any kind of fiction. If you're so ashamed of what you're writing that you don't want your normal fans to know you're writing it - be it slash, femmeslash, harems, smut, or My Little Ponies - then I think you might want to step back and reexamine whether or not you should be writing what you're writing.

The issue was also raised of people having different names when dealing with different fandoms, and that they should have multiple accounts here so people can find them easily. I've seen dozens of people handle that quite simply in the past: the profile page includes a large text field where you can put anything you want, including the same HTML tags available in story posts. Tell people.

As for that last, bizarre little attempt at logic in which Don tried to brand anyone and everyone on the site a homophobe for not posting their name, address, and phone number, I don't even know where to begin with something that mind-bogglingly stupid and so I'm just going to ignore it.
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« Reply #14 on: Sat, 05 Nov 11 18:58:52 »

I disagreed with that reason: I think whether someone wants to have all their writing identified as being by the same author is outside our remit as moderators; only those using multiple accounts to abuse privileges is a problem and I'm insulted by the implications by quoting it in isolation of the rest of the debate that all moderators hold that view. If someone is the mother of a 10 year old child they may post family friendly fics on another site and post those same fics here on the same pen name to avoid accusations of plagiarism. Now we say "you can't post your FR-21 fic on our site at all unless you also post it under that pen name that your child knows because they read your work on the family site, which they might Google." I believe an adult has a right to author & post adult material without telling their young children until they reach an age the parent is comfortable with.

However, as Joe points out, I lost that debate with the moderating team. What I'm annoyed by is that when Don makes the same argument in public that I did in private, he gets abuse rather than an explanation of the moderators' reasons. I was willing to keep quiet to the sake of moderator unity when this was first question by Alec Star but I don't why I should sit back while others who share my opinion are treated like this.
« Last Edit: Sat, 05 Nov 11 19:00:25 by jrabbit » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #15 on: Sat, 05 Nov 11 19:03:02 »

Jay, do we really want to start copying and pasting large chunks of private moderation debates into this thread? To give people a clear and perfectly unbiased look at everything? I mean, you're all "think of the users" and stuff here, but I really wouldn't mind airing individual authors' dirty laundry if you think it'd be fairer to everyone that they get a full and complete view of the discussion at hand.

EDIT: And yes, Jay, I think they all knew you didn't agree. I pointed that out at the start of my post.
« Last Edit: Sat, 05 Nov 11 19:20:27 by JoeHundredaire » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #16 on: Sat, 05 Nov 11 20:10:23 »

Considering that I've never been a moderator anywhere.

At least a discussion and vote was involved.

Yes, someone got ticked, or a few.  But that happens in anything. If the ticked have to blame someone, they have several to divide the blame up among.
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« Reply #17 on: Sat, 05 Nov 11 20:20:42 »

Why do you think I made the announcement on behalf of the mods? You all hate me already.
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« Reply #18 on: Sat, 05 Nov 11 22:38:40 »

...Why not add pseudonyms to the site? To the average user, it would look like different accounts, but in reality it would just be one. Both sides would be happy. If it is feasible to code into the site, do a test run with the people who actually want more than one account, see how it actually works. If it works, yay, open the option to more people. If it does not work, oh well, we tried.
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« Reply #19 on: Sat, 05 Nov 11 23:05:35 »

...Why not add pseudonyms to the site? To the average user, it would look like different accounts, but in reality it would just be one. Both sides would be happy. If it is feasible to code into the site, do a test run with the people who actually want more than one account, see how it actually works. If it works, yay, open the option to more people. If it does not work, oh well, we tried.
It was brought up and on top of feeling like we're inventing a way to specifically circumvent the newest rule on the site, it's simply not feasible from a time perspective at this point according to Jay when we talked it over earlier tonight. If we were working from the ground up like AO3 or something, that'd be one thing, but it would be a substantial departure from even the SINO code we're running on our site. With his current real life workload, it's just not possible anytime soon unless A.) Jay is willing to let another person into the site's code and B.) some generous person is willing to foot the bill to bring in an outside coder and compensate them for making the required changes.
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« Reply #20 on: Sat, 05 Nov 11 23:09:56 »

Point, point, and point. Oh well. And by the way, I like your current signature. Quintessential Luna Lovegood.
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« Reply #21 on: Fri, 06 Jan 12 21:43:35 »

Why do you think I made the announcement on behalf of the mods? You all hate me already.

I know I'm late to the party, but I honestly had no ill feelings toward you (despite having been around the site for quite some time) until your bellicosity here.

Frankly, I would like to have a second account that I could share with my mum (who is a great fan of the site and fanfiction in general, having introduced me to both many moons ago), but I can't share my fic with her because this user name is connected to things I really don't want her to find. Blah blah, I'm an adult. That doesn't mean I'd like people IRL seeing everything I do online.
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« Reply #22 on: Fri, 06 Jan 12 23:16:15 »

Why do you think I made the announcement on behalf of the mods? You all hate me already.

I know I'm late to the party, but I honestly had no ill feelings toward you (despite having been around the site for quite some time) until your bellicosity here.

Frankly, I would like to have a second account that I could share with my mum (who is a great fan of the site and fanfiction in general, having introduced me to both many moons ago), but I can't share my fic with her because this user name is connected to things I really don't want her to find. Blah blah, I'm an adult. That doesn't mean I'd like people IRL seeing everything I do online.

I think a lot of us feel this way.  I've pretty much stopped sharing ANY of my writing with ANYONE I know... I could work with them at some point, and the fact I write sex scenes... ANY sex scenes could cost me the chance to work.  EVER.  

So, I don't share my writing with a lot of people I like.  Some of my family are religious.  I'm religious.  They wouldn't get it.  But I do understand the reasoning behind it.  I wish there were a work around.  Since i have neither the time nor the inclination to post my work elsewhere, most of the most important people I know will never read a single word I write.  This makes me sad.  When I die, none of them will even know that I've written (as of right now), close to a million words.  My dad saw my work before he died b/c he was kind of bullet proof about anything I would choose to write... he was a writer and a bit of an old rake... It was his porn that I got into when I was 12!  Shocked Anyway...  I too would like a sort of 'light blue joy' account...
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« Reply #23 on: Fri, 06 Jan 12 23:21:37 »

Why do you think I made the announcement on behalf of the mods? You all hate me already.

I know I'm late to the party, but I honestly had no ill feelings toward you (despite having been around the site for quite some time) until your bellicosity here.

Frankly, I would like to have a second account that I could share with my mum (who is a great fan of the site and fanfiction in general, having introduced me to both many moons ago), but I can't share my fic with her because this user name is connected to things I really don't want her to find. Blah blah, I'm an adult. That doesn't mean I'd like people IRL seeing everything I do online.

I'm guessing what you mean is you don't want to tell your mum your current penname because you have published fics you don't want her reading, but you want to let her read some of your fics? IF that's the case, you have a couple of choices... let her read them offsite, or help her set up an account and pull the fics you don't want her to see. If you're embarrassed to have your mum know that you write something you KNOW she won't approve of, then maybe you should consider if you want any random person who happens to find TTH to read those. Because 'any random person' could well be your mum... or some other member of your family.

Just an observation... I'm not trying to tell you what to do, just giving my perspective.

For my part, I have no problem with this rule. None whatsoever. Then again, I tend to keep my RL separate from my NetLife... although I've invited some members of my family to read my stuff here. My parents both know my screenname, and I write adult material. They both know that too. If they don't want to read it, they won't. My mom's not into fanfic, though, so I doubt she'll ever read any of my stuff, and I'm okay with that. My dad's taken a look at some of it. He loved my story, The Road to Nowhere. Of course, he was the one who trained me to drive a tractor-trailer, so the fact that I wrote a truck driver story tickled him more than a little bit.
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« Reply #24 on: Sat, 07 Jan 12 15:33:56 »

One time I ended up making out with a chick at a Dropkick Murphys concert. Got her AIM screen name before we parted ways, went home... and it turned out I'd already known her for two years and we talked 2-3 hours a day every day in that period. This was just in the era before every laptop and all-in-one came with a built-in webcam and so she just didn't have pictures handy.

The moral of the story, as EllandrahSylver pointed out?

You have no idea who anyone is online. For all you know, your mom is already a big fan of what you "don't want her to find" and you don't even know it. Which makes your entire post a moot point.

Or you could actually still have a degree of anonymity on here.

Point is, you don't know and I love the fact that everyone jumps to the extreme of paranoia.
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« Reply #25 on: Sat, 07 Jan 12 16:08:47 »

One time I ended up making out with a chick at a Dropkick Murphys concert. Got her AIM screen name before we parted ways, went home... and it turned out I'd already known her for two years and we talked 2-3 hours a day every day in that period. This was just in the era before every laptop and all-in-one came with a built-in webcam and so she just didn't have pictures handy.

The moral of the story, as EllandrahSylver pointed out?

You have no idea who anyone is online. For all you know, your mom is already a big fan of what you "don't want her to find" and you don't even know it. Which makes your entire post a moot point.

Or you could actually still have a degree of anonymity on here.

Point is, you don't know and I love the fact that everyone jumps to the extreme of paranoia.

My close family knows that I write fanfic and most know it includes adult material.  I don't give out my info to them as a rule b/c I don't want to scandalize the rest of the family, and given that amongst them I have a few 'evangelist' type religious people, scandalized they would be.  they already know that my interpretation of the 'book' and theirs is 'a little different' and we get along.  I want to keep it that way. It's not paranoia.  

Some of us also work in professions where we really could become unemployable if our online endeavors were to become widely known even though none of us is suggesting things that are 'bad' or 'illegal', the world still has more than its fair share of narrow minded people.

I had my life ruined once by getting into a tangle with church people, (which is quite different imo from God's people), so I'm quite aware of their capacity for narrownesses.

I do understand you've made the rule.  I am simply expressing an opinion, for whatever it's worth.  At this point, I write what i write and I keep it close to my chest.

Blue
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« Reply #26 on: Sat, 07 Jan 12 16:13:50 »

My point is that it's rather short-sighted to think that you won't be found just because you CHOOSE not to give out a link to specific people. If you're really that worried about people knowing what you do for fun, publishing fanfic online might not be for you. I mean, the site shows up on generic Google searches and is available for direct searches via "site:tthfanfic.org <term>" if you want to find something only on our archive. Again, that girl you're hitting on might turn out to be the online friend you've had for a while. Welcome to the Internet. You have no idea who's looking at what you do and where they are. The only foolproof way that exists for you to ensure that you're never confronted by an undesirable person about your hobbies is to not put them out there for the entire world to know about.

EDIT: Hell, you want a great example of this advice in action? I have a friend who consented to allowing my sister to use her as a reference for drawings, ranging from G-rated sketch dumps to work on facial features and anatomy to R and X rated pictures. Her real name was never used and as a matter of fact, she appeared under a rotating band of aliases to minimize chances that someone would try to make a connection. Two months ago, someone approached her on campus at college (a whopping 800 miles south of where my sister lives and works) and asked her if she drew or modeled for artists because she looked familiar. Much to said friend's shock and amusement, the person then pulled up a picture on their iPad... that was one of my sister's X-rated pieces that utilized her likeness. Nothing says awkward conversation like having a person pull out a drawing of you engaged in a Harry Potter-themed M/F/M threesome.
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« Reply #27 on: Sat, 07 Jan 12 16:44:46 »

My point is that it's rather short-sighted to think that you won't be found just because you CHOOSE not to give out a link to specific people. If you're really that worried about people knowing what you do for fun, publishing fanfic online might not be for you. I mean, the site shows up on generic Google searches and is available for direct searches via "site:tthfanfic.org <term>" if you want to find something only on our archive. Again, that girl you're hitting on might turn out to be the online friend you've had for a while. Welcome to the Internet.

I understand that people can find anyone, anywhere... and frankly I don't care if Mr religious reads my story and learns something.  I care if he tries to make my life miserable for it.  So, I don't advertise.  If he, the mythic creature is moved to find out if I have a 'secret' life, then I guess i'll be outed...  

I'm not ashamed of what I do or I wouldn't do it.  Integrity is having the inner you be the same pretty much as the outer you, however, there's also relative 'privacy' in creating a 'net identity.  You don't walk down the road with your undies showing either (well, most of us don't).  Relative b/c once you've told someone, unless you've a guarantee they won't ever talk, it's not a 'secret'.  Anyway, I'm not sure the point of keeping this going and much as I delight in arguing with you, I think I've said my piece.

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« Reply #28 on: Sat, 07 Jan 12 18:49:47 »




I'm guessing what you mean is you don't want to tell your mum your current penname because you have published fics you don't want her reading, but you want to let her read some of your fics? IF that's the case, you have a couple of choices... let her read them offsite, or help her set up an account and pull the fics you don't want her to see. If you're embarrassed to have your mum know that you write something you KNOW she won't approve of, then maybe you should consider if you want any random person who happens to find TTH to read those. Because 'any random person' could well be your mum... or some other member of your family.

Just an observation... I'm not trying to tell you what to do, just giving my perspective.

For my part, I have no problem with this rule. None whatsoever. Then again, I tend to keep my RL separate from my NetLife... although I've invited some members of my family to read my stuff here. My parents both know my screenname, and I write adult material. They both know that too. If they don't want to read it, they won't. My mom's not into fanfic, though, so I doubt she'll ever read any of my stuff, and I'm okay with that. My dad's taken a look at some of it. He loved my story, The Road to Nowhere. Of course, he was the one who trained me to drive a tractor-trailer, so the fact that I wrote a truck driver story tickled him more than a little bit.

Or create an account for her.  Add the stories you want her to read to your/her favorites list.  Give her the name and password and explain how to change her password to her satisfaction.
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« Reply #29 on: Sat, 07 Jan 12 18:52:08 »

My point is that it's rather short-sighted to think that you won't be found just because you CHOOSE not to give out a link to specific people. If you're really that worried about people knowing what you do for fun, publishing fanfic online might not be for you. I mean, the site shows up on generic Google searches and is available for direct searches via "site:tthfanfic.org <term>" if you want to find something only on our archive. Again, that girl you're hitting on might turn out to be the online friend you've had for a while. Welcome to the Internet. You have no idea who's looking at what you do and where they are. The only foolproof way that exists for you to ensure that you're never confronted by an undesirable person about your hobbies is to not put them out there for the entire world to know about.

EDIT: Hell, you want a great example of this advice in action? I have a friend who consented to allowing my sister to use her as a reference for drawings, ranging from G-rated sketch dumps to work on facial features and anatomy to R and X rated pictures. Her real name was never used and as a matter of fact, she appeared under a rotating band of aliases to minimize chances that someone would try to make a connection. Two months ago, someone approached her on campus at college (a whopping 800 miles south of where my sister lives and works) and asked her if she drew or modeled for artists because she looked familiar. Much to said friend's shock and amusement, the person then pulled up a picture on their iPad... that was one of my sister's X-rated pieces that utilized her likeness. Nothing says awkward conversation like having a person pull out a drawing of you engaged in a Harry Potter-themed M/F/M threesome.

On another note... if you do what I did and put your chat name on a convention badge (dragoncon for me).  You might wind up standing next to someone in a Nicholas Brendon panel, who recognizes your fanfic handle and gets giggly while asking for an autograph.

It was a very weird moment, though I can honestly say now that I've given out an autograph to someone.
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« Reply #30 on: Sat, 07 Jan 12 20:46:10 »

My point is that it's rather short-sighted to think that you won't be found just because you CHOOSE not to give out a link to specific people. If you're really that worried about people knowing what you do for fun, publishing fanfic online might not be for you. I mean, the site shows up on generic Google searches and is available for direct searches via "site:tthfanfic.org <term>" if you want to find something only on our archive. Again, that girl you're hitting on might turn out to be the online friend you've had for a while. Welcome to the Internet. You have no idea who's looking at what you do and where they are. The only foolproof way that exists for you to ensure that you're never confronted by an undesirable person about your hobbies is to not put them out there for the entire world to know about.

EDIT: Hell, you want a great example of this advice in action? I have a friend who consented to allowing my sister to use her as a reference for drawings, ranging from G-rated sketch dumps to work on facial features and anatomy to R and X rated pictures. Her real name was never used and as a matter of fact, she appeared under a rotating band of aliases to minimize chances that someone would try to make a connection. Two months ago, someone approached her on campus at college (a whopping 800 miles south of where my sister lives and works) and asked her if she drew or modeled for artists because she looked familiar. Much to said friend's shock and amusement, the person then pulled up a picture on their iPad... that was one of my sister's X-rated pieces that utilized her likeness. Nothing says awkward conversation like having a person pull out a drawing of you engaged in a Harry Potter-themed M/F/M threesome.

On another note... if you do what I did and put your chat name on a convention badge (dragoncon for me).  You might wind up standing next to someone in a Nicholas Brendon panel, who recognizes your fanfic handle and gets giggly while asking for an autograph.

It was a very weird moment, though I can honestly say now that I've given out an autograph to someone.

Dude, that's cool. *grins*
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« Reply #31 on: Sat, 07 Jan 12 21:10:31 »

Dude, that's cool. *grins*
The autograph or X-rated drawings? jk
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« Reply #32 on: Sat, 07 Jan 12 21:35:38 »

Dude, that's cool. *grins*
The autograph or X-rated drawings? jk

*snorts* Smartass. Still, getting asked for an autograph because someone recognises your penname? WIN!!! ^_^
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« Reply #33 on: Sat, 07 Jan 12 22:27:46 »

Dude, that's cool. *grins*
The autograph or X-rated drawings? jk
*snorts* Smartass. Still, getting asked for an autograph because someone recognises your penname? WIN!!! ^_^
I unno, I would have thought being recognized from art would be win if I was in She-Who-Will-Not-Be-Named's spot, but I've got a sick sense of humor. Smiley

Pondering doing that now. I'm recognized on pretty much every sci-fi/comics/Harry Potter/Buffy site I go to. Wonder if I'd get recognized too...
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« Reply #34 on: Sat, 07 Jan 12 22:29:26 »

Dude, that's cool. *grins*
The autograph or X-rated drawings? jk
*snorts* Smartass. Still, getting asked for an autograph because someone recognises your penname? WIN!!! ^_^
I unno, I would have thought being recognized from art would be win if I was in She-Who-Will-Not-Be-Named's spot, but I've got a sick sense of humor. Smiley

Pondering doing that now. I'm recognized on pretty much every sci-fi/comics/Harry Potter/Buffy site I go to. Wonder if I'd get recognized too...

Yeah, maybe, but I'd give you even odds of getting slapped upside the head as asked for an autograph. You're just too good at being abrasive...   Wink

Edit: Upon further reflection, it occurs to me that the fact that I know your actual name does make it more likely that I'd recognise who I was talking to if I happened to run into you at a con. But then, you can say the same, so that could be an interesting conversation, so long as we were both civil about it. I wouldn't be asking for your autograph, though. *grins* Wouldn't expect you to ask for mine, either.
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« Reply #35 on: Sat, 07 Jan 12 22:40:55 »

I have some sympathy for those who prefer multiple pseuds - is there any way to signal from the author's side when you're posting a very different type of content from the usual fare you provide, or to segregate tracking via story tags of some kind? I've been holding off on posting my Ladies' Big Bang fill 'Slayer Slain Slay' here because I'm worried about losing readers who track me for my action/adventure YAHF fic. ('Slayer Slain Slay' is a nine-part BtVS poem cycle.)

Well, that and the HTML for posting it is a bitch and a half to format correctly from site to site, but the point still holds. Is this a stupid thing to worry about?

-

Re: getting recognized offline, I started out segregating online life very carefully only to realize that a casual Google search linked the two pseuds within the first page of results. I might consider doing kinkmeme fills anonymously in the future, but anything FR21 is out unless I posted it by proxy through another user and never mentioned it under my primary pseuds. I've had an offline friend find my Dreamwidth journal simply by Googling the title of a poem I wrote back in high school - I never would have thought that posting poetry of all things might be a security risk in terms of keeping offline and online life separate.
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« Reply #36 on: Sat, 07 Jan 12 23:52:51 »

Re: getting recognized offline, I started out segregating online life very carefully - 'Idhren' for fandom purposes (FF.net, TtH, AO3, etc.) and a 'J.J. Hunter' for the rest (primarily Dreamwidth) - only to realize that a casual Google search linked the two pseuds within the first page of results.

I suspect that for those of us who have been living "online" for a long time, there's really no easy way to avoid people making connections between different parts of our online and real lives and it would be virtually impossible to "fix" that without going completely off the grid for a while and coming back with a new name.

I've been fairly honest about who I am online for many years. I don't jump up and down and wave my arms about to attract attention, but I don't hide either. Of course, in the "early" years only the truly paranoid hid who they were.

I've only been writing fan fiction since 2003 and I've kept that and my personal blogging life separate from my "work exposed" presence from that point (I never mention my employer on my blog or any place like these forums, Facebook, twitter, etc.  ) but a determined person could probably follow the clues and track my online presence back quite a ways.

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« Reply #37 on: Sun, 08 Jan 12 00:15:10 »

One thing I wonder... these people who want two names so they can have a "safe" name? Does it ever occur to them that the people they're funneling in here might actually read other stuff on the site? Do you want your mother reading my Dawn the Hooker fic? Or my "Kennedy surprises Willow" short fic named Dick in a Box? Hell, some of my PG through R-rated stuff is pretty damn weird too...

And what's to stop your mother from reading your other account once they're here, for that matter? And do you write so differently when you do dirty fic that it require Sherlock himself to look at Account A's stories and Account B's stories and go "Gee, these look awfully similar in style, I wonder..." and come to ask you? And how exactly would you react if your mother came to you with adult stories that she'd found, be they yours or mine or someone else's? O_o
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« Reply #38 on: Sun, 08 Jan 12 00:24:32 »

Quote
I have some sympathy for those who prefer multiple pseuds - is there any way to signal from the author's side when you're posting a very different type of content from the usual fare you provide, or to segregate tracking via story tags of some kind? I've been holding off on posting my Ladies' Big Bang fill 'Slayer Slain Slay' here because I'm worried about losing readers who track me for my action/adventure YAHF fic. ('Slayer Slain Slay' is a nine-part BtVS poem cycle.)

Well, that and the HTML for posting it is a bitch and a half to format correctly from site to site, but the point still holds. Is this a stupid thing to worry about?

Following up on this, I told myself 'what the hell' and started posting the poem cycle...and ran right into HTML trouble when I hit the first of three parts that use the 'table' tag extensively. See separate thread here in the 'Site Problems' section of the forum asking for help. I love two-voiced poetry, but posting it online is such a pain in the ass.
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« Reply #39 on: Sun, 08 Jan 12 00:25:27 »

 And do you write so differently when you do dirty fic that it require Sherlock himself to look at Account A's stories and Account B's stories and go "Gee, these look awfully similar in style, I wonder..." and come to ask you?

I don't write "dirty fic" (yet) but I do wonder if anyone could tell if I posted fic (elsewhere of course Smiley - Mods really shouldn't break the rules) under another id at a fic site like the Pit and know it was me just by the writing style if there was nothing to connect it back to my "official" fic writing presence.

How distinct IS my writing style? Yours (Joe) is distinct enough that I THINK I could pick it out if someone pointed me at a large bunch of "anonymous"  fics and said "which one did Joe write?" but ONLY if I knew one of them was yours.
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« Reply #40 on: Sun, 08 Jan 12 00:27:12 »

One thing I wonder... these people who want two names so they can have a "safe" name? Does it ever occur to them that the people they're funneling in here might actually read other stuff on the site? Do you want your mother reading my Dawn the Hooker fic? Or my "Kennedy surprises Willow" short fic named Dick in a Box? Hell, some of my PG through R-rated stuff is pretty damn weird too...

And what's to stop your mother from reading your other account once they're here, for that matter? And do you write so differently when you do dirty fic that it require Sherlock himself to look at Account A's stories and Account B's stories and go "Gee, these look awfully similar in style, I wonder..." and come to ask you? And how exactly would you react if your mother came to you with adult stories that she'd found, be they yours or mine or someone else's? O_o

Well put, Joe. *nods* This very reasoning is one of the things that has me considering carefully WHAT I want to put up on my own page. It's why I rabidly avoid writing about truly controversial things, like Slash/Femslash/Incest, etc. My poly fic is about the most radically alternative thing I've written. I don't care tht the people on here who know me IRL know that I write het porn... I warn them of that as soon as I discover that they're on the site. And, um... I forgot that I actually directed a couple of my friends here while I was in college, and they know my penname.

If I was really afraid of people finding me here, I'd take my stuff DOWN. It's that simple.
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« Reply #41 on: Sun, 08 Jan 12 00:31:48 »

I have some sympathy for those who prefer multiple pseuds - is there any way to signal from the author's side when you're posting a very different type of content from the usual fare you provide, or to segregate tracking via story tags of some kind? I've been holding off on posting my Ladies' Big Bang fill 'Slayer Slain Slay' here because I'm worried about losing readers who track me for my action/adventure YAHF fic. ('Slayer Slain Slay' is a nine-part BtVS poem cycle.)

Well, that and the HTML for posting it is a bitch and a half to format correctly from site to site, but the point still holds. Is this a stupid thing to worry about?

-

Re: getting recognized offline, I started out segregating online life very carefully - 'Idhren' for fandom purposes (FF.net, TtH, AO3, etc.) and a 'J.J. Hunter' for the rest (primarily Dreamwidth) - only to realize that a casual Google search linked the two pseuds within the first page of results. I might consider doing kinkmeme fills anonymously in the future, but anything FR21 is out unless I posted it by proxy through another user and never mentioned it under my primary pseuds. I've had an offline friend find my Dreamwidth journal simply by Googling the title of a poem I wrote back in high school - I never would have thought that posting poetry of all things might be a security risk in terms of keeping offline and online life separate.

Honestly, it's been my experience that unless a writer posts something that their readers find truly offensive, or they do something incredibly crass and tasteless in the review pages or the forum of pretty much any fic site, fans of one story aren't going to go away just because the author posts something different. Having a diverse collection of work tends to increase a fanbase, not decrease it, as different things appeal to the tastes of different people.
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« Reply #42 on: Sun, 08 Jan 12 01:07:57 »

Quote
Honestly, it's been my experience that unless a writer posts something that their readers find truly offensive, or they do something incredibly crass and tasteless in the review pages or the forum of pretty much any fic site, fans of one story aren't going to go away just because the author posts something different. Having a diverse collection of work tends to increase a fanbase, not decrease it, as different things appeal to the tastes of different people.


Yeah, I agree.  But can sympathize with being 'scared' of branching out from what readers may have come to expect.  I sorta expected some backlash when I posted my last fic, because it was IMHO very different from my usual thing.  Crack!Incest is not for everyone,after all.  Of course, there's no way I could have posted it under a different name even if the rule didn't exist.  I'm pretty sure it would have been obvious that it was me.

Writing what you want vs. what you think the audience wants is an interesting dilemma that I (as someone relatively new to writing) find myself struggling with. I've ultimately done what I wanted, but it wasn't without some anxiety at times. I wonder if those worries will lessen as I gain more confidence as a writer? If I ever get a chance to speak to one of my favorite published authors, I'd love to ask them how much they think about the audience's expectations when they are writing.

Anyway, back on topic. I think I would die of embarassment if my mother read some of the adult scenes I've written. She can barely turn a computer on though, so yay for me.

Stupid question: but how do you get the OPs name and time of posting to show when you copy a quote? I can't seem to get that to cooperate. ETA: nevermind, I just noticed the magical 'quote' button at the top of the screen just after posting this.  Why yes, I am a professional programmer (hangs head).
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« Reply #43 on: Sun, 08 Jan 12 02:59:41 »

Which would be more embarrassing, Lola, your mom finding yours or your mom finding my fic where a penis-possessing Kennedy reenacts the SNL "Dick in a Box" skit with Willow? Complete with fan art by Saturn and references to Illyria having kinky sex with Dawn?
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« Reply #44 on: Sun, 08 Jan 12 04:36:08 »

Which would be more embarrassing, Lola, your mom finding yours or your mom finding my fic where a penis-possessing Kennedy reenacts the SNL "Dick in a Box" skit with Willow? Complete with fan art by Saturn and references to Illyria having kinky sex with Dawn?

*blinks* I haven't read the fic, and now, kinda glad I didn't. Dude, that's just wrong... *snickers*
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« Reply #45 on: Sun, 08 Jan 12 11:43:22 »

Which would be more embarrassing, Lola, your mom finding yours or your mom finding my fic where a penis-possessing Kennedy reenacts the SNL "Dick in a Box" skit with Willow? Complete with fan art by Saturn and references to Illyria having kinky sex with Dawn?

LOL that actually sounds entertaining in a WTF sort of way ;-)  Personally, I'd think it would be hilarious if my mom ran across something like that.  I can just imagine her being scandalized in her thick SW Va accent. "What in the world!  That's the most awwful thing I've ever seen." (and she'd be giggling the whole time).  

As long as she didn't think I wrote it, I wouldn't care.  Weird?  Maybe, but I'm from the Bible Belt, where many parents prefer to think that their daughter (even if she's married) is still a prim and proper virgin.
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« Reply #46 on: Sun, 08 Jan 12 18:08:28 »



Pondering doing that now. I'm recognized on pretty much every sci-fi/comics/Harry Potter/Buffy site I go to. Wonder if I'd get recognized too...

Use your penname from here at DragonCon, and probably.
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« Reply #47 on: Sun, 08 Jan 12 18:11:08 »

Which would be more embarrassing, Lola, your mom finding yours or your mom finding my fic where a penis-possessing Kennedy reenacts the SNL "Dick in a Box" skit with Willow? Complete with fan art by Saturn and references to Illyria having kinky sex with Dawn?

I think if you ever do go to a con, find a buffy panel after finding a few con-goers willing to enact that. and confuse the room. Heh
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« Reply #48 on: Sun, 08 Jan 12 21:19:11 »

Pondering doing that now. I'm recognized on pretty much every sci-fi/comics/Harry Potter/Buffy site I go to. Wonder if I'd get recognized too...
Use your penname from here at DragonCon, and probably.
Remind me to bring pepper spray in case it's someone I've flamed...

Which would be more embarrassing, Lola, your mom finding yours or your mom finding my fic where a penis-possessing Kennedy reenacts the SNL "Dick in a Box" skit with Willow? Complete with fan art by Saturn and references to Illyria having kinky sex with Dawn?
I think if you ever do go to a con, find a buffy panel after finding a few con-goers willing to enact that. and confuse the room. Heh.
To quote an old-school sepia tone man with a beer... BRILLIANT!
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« Reply #49 on: Sun, 08 Jan 12 22:00:04 »

Pondering doing that now. I'm recognized on pretty much every sci-fi/comics/Harry Potter/Buffy site I go to. Wonder if I'd get recognized too...
Use your penname from here at DragonCon, and probably.
Remind me to bring pepper spray in case it's someone I've flamed...


*raises eyebrow* You think that would help, if they recognise you, but you don't recognise them?
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