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Author Topic: And just when I think I can tolerate him...  (Read 10311 times)
bucksavage
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« Reply #100 on: Fri, 10 Feb 12 22:31:47 »

Just as long as you don't repeat 'Grassroots' every other sentance.

Yea Gods, no! Grandstanding idiots do that. I meant an actual, from the ground, direct campaigning for myself thing, not using 'grassroots' as a buzzword to try to manipulate the people... which would directly contradict my No Bullshit policy.

Just as long as you don't repeat 'Grassroots' every other sentance.

Unless of course legalizing pot is part of the platform, in which case 'Grassroots' would be a fitting term.  

You got my vote and help if you run.

Lol! Legalizing pot as a platform topic would be a surefire way to lose.

Thanks. Go to my profile, and email me from there if you're serious. *grins*

That goes for everybody.

If you legalize pot, would Cheech and Chong be in your cabinet?  Would you be the "Green" party?  

If you wanna see some funny political campaign stuff, watch Chris Rock in Head of State.  Some of the funniest lines ever.  
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EllandrahSylver
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« Reply #101 on: Fri, 10 Feb 12 22:53:55 »

Heck, if the other canidates are of the same quality that are currently running, I'd vote for you.

*grins* Thanks. Now I just need a hundred million more people to think like you...

All we need is a TTH 'PAC' (political action committee)

Could be interesting. Think Joss and company would try to sue us if we actually tried to get something like that off the ground?
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EllandrahSylver
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« Reply #102 on: Fri, 10 Feb 12 22:55:37 »

Just as long as you don't repeat 'Grassroots' every other sentance.

Yea Gods, no! Grandstanding idiots do that. I meant an actual, from the ground, direct campaigning for myself thing, not using 'grassroots' as a buzzword to try to manipulate the people... which would directly contradict my No Bullshit policy.

Just as long as you don't repeat 'Grassroots' every other sentance.

Unless of course legalizing pot is part of the platform, in which case 'Grassroots' would be a fitting term.  

You got my vote and help if you run.

Lol! Legalizing pot as a platform topic would be a surefire way to lose.

Thanks. Go to my profile, and email me from there if you're serious. *grins*

That goes for everybody.

If you legalize pot, would Cheech and Chong be in your cabinet?  Would you be the "Green" party?  

If you wanna see some funny political campaign stuff, watch Chris Rock in Head of State.  Some of the funniest lines ever.  


Thanks, no. One, I've seen it. Two, I think it would be pretty cool of we actually managed to influence an election from the 'net.
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cwolf
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« Reply #103 on: Fri, 10 Feb 12 23:26:01 »

Things to learn from a webcomic artist livestream..

Tv show pre-internet, called Family Affair. Had a little girl named Buffy as one of the characters
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EllandrahSylver
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« Reply #104 on: Sat, 11 Feb 12 03:36:30 »

Things to learn from a webcomic artist livestream..

Tv show pre-internet, called Family Affair. Had a little girl named Buffy as one of the characters

Yes, and I've read a crossover between Family Affair and BtVS, but I have no idea who wrote it....
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JoeB
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« Reply #105 on: Sat, 11 Feb 12 08:34:16 »

No, we must be a Super-Pac!
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Sherza
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« Reply #106 on: Mon, 20 Feb 12 12:53:42 »

ok, possibly beating a dead horse here, bt DBJ, you are completely bonkers.

Among HUMANS, your belief is a good, right, and grand thing, and should be the way things are.

But as has been mentioned, we are NOT talking about humans here. We're talking about vampires. Undead creatures whose sole purpose of existence is to kill and eat human beings (with a side of ending the world for the ones on a hellmouth). Angel and Spike are MASSIVE exceptions to the norm. And even then, they were both evil little f***ers before they got souled up and became 'good guys'.

As for Xander being twitchy about accepting demonic help ... stop and look at everything that's happened re: demons. Just how many of them wanted to help stop the big bads? And of those precious few, how many *didn't* back-stab, double-cross, or otherwise cause the Scoobies headaches and heartaches, either at the time they were helping, prior to that or after that? (Lorne doesn't count, as he's Angel-verse, not Buffy).

I can't think of a SINGLE example except for Clem. And even him, I'm none too sure of as I don't know all of canon.

Given what they've had to deal with, Xander's attitude towards demons in general and vamps in particular is nowhere near bigotry, prejudice, or poorly-thought-out knee-jerk reaction. It's a rather commonsensible attitude based in fact and experience.
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DeepBlueJoy
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« Reply #107 on: Mon, 20 Feb 12 13:03:21 »

ok, possibly beating a dead horse here, bt DBJ, you are completely bonkers.


Go beat whatever it is you need to beat to get your rocks off and leave me alone. This discussion has been over for a while and I really have no use for people calling me names or calling me crazy.   Move on.  I have.
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Marcus Rowland
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« Reply #108 on: Mon, 20 Feb 12 14:06:08 »

ok, possibly beating a dead horse here, bt DBJ, you are completely bonkers.

Among HUMANS, your belief is a good, right, and grand thing, and should be the way things are.

But as has been mentioned, we are NOT talking about humans here. We're talking about vampires. Undead creatures whose sole purpose of existence is to kill and eat human beings (with a side of ending the world for the ones on a hellmouth). Angel and Spike are MASSIVE exceptions to the norm. And even then, they were both evil little f***ers before they got souled up and became 'good guys'.

This would be the same Spike who essentially said "I don't want to end the world because there won't be people to eat or Manchester United" and stopped Angel from destroying the world about two years before the chip and four before the soul?
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matthew
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« Reply #109 on: Mon, 20 Feb 12 14:15:37 »

ok, possibly beating a dead horse here, bt DBJ, you are completely bonkers.

Among HUMANS, your belief is a good, right, and grand thing, and should be the way things are.

But as has been mentioned, we are NOT talking about humans here. We're talking about vampires. Undead creatures whose sole purpose of existence is to kill and eat human beings (with a side of ending the world for the ones on a hellmouth). Angel and Spike are MASSIVE exceptions to the norm. And even then, they were both evil little f***ers before they got souled up and became 'good guys'.

This would be the same Spike who essentially said "I don't want to end the world because there won't be people to eat or Manchester United" and stopped Angel from destroying the world about two years before the chip and four before the soul?

And what part of that *doesn't* mesh with him being an evil bastard?
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JoeB
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« Reply #110 on: Mon, 20 Feb 12 15:56:26 »

Yeah, I have to agree with Mathew, Spike wasn't stopping Angelus out of the goodness of his heart; it was for strictly personal reasons.
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Marcus Rowland
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« Reply #111 on: Mon, 20 Feb 12 16:10:57 »

Which did NOT involve ending the world. So not all vampires want to end the world; for example, can you imagine Harmony wanting to do that? In fact the problem I have with her is that she would probably regard the whole blood thing as incredibly icky, and she wasn't shown that way.
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Marcus L. Rowland
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JoeB
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« Reply #112 on: Mon, 20 Feb 12 18:49:39 »

Ah, typed without really reading the first post, my bad.
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matthew
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« Reply #113 on: Mon, 20 Feb 12 20:17:33 »

Which did NOT involve ending the world. So not all vampires want to end the world; for example, can you imagine Harmony wanting to do that? In fact the problem I have with her is that she would probably regard the whole blood thing as incredibly icky, and she wasn't shown that way.

Never claimed they did. You don't have to want to end the world to be a nasty, sadistic psychopath
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arkeus
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« Reply #114 on: Thu, 23 Feb 12 16:03:58 »

Honestly, with Xander, i think he is more of 'friend' and 'non-friend' person. Friends (or people he finds hot) are forgiven pretty much everything, while nonfriends are not. Not really rare.
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Sherza
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« Reply #115 on: Sat, 25 Feb 12 17:55:47 »

No, not all vamps wanted to end the world ... that's why I said there was a *side* of world-endage possible for vamps on the hellmouth. The strongest ones did seem to have that agenda in mind, Spike being the main exception to that ... he was, as noted, quite happy to have his happy-meals-on-legs and telly, thank you kindly. That said, Spike was still an evil little bastard pre-soul ... and even Harmony pulled some questionable stuff, though it was pretty dang mild compared to most other vamps.
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Marcus Rowland
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« Reply #116 on: Sun, 26 Feb 12 04:44:28 »

The point I'm making here is that vampires, in general, are NOT in the world-ending business to the same extent as some other demonic species. It's much more of an individual preference than (for example) the Sisters of Jhe who exist solely to sacrifice themselves and open the Hellmouth, and other demonic races / religions which compel the destruction of the world or the universe.
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Marcus L. Rowland
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DeacBlue
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« Reply #117 on: Tue, 19 Jun 12 02:11:19 »

Sorry to dig this thread up, but I'd like to speak on at least a couple of issues. The first is, why has this Xander Sue silliness gone on (and on and on) for so long?  I get that he's the everyman, the guy closest to most of the boys writing fanfics, so it seems natural for them to do a self-insert in Xander's image. Oh, and then giving him ridiculous amounts of power, both because "Xander deserves it," and because, him being them, they get to show just how they would do with those powers. Obviously, they'd make every right decision, and never miss a trick, especially in setting up for situations that won't show up for seasons yet to come, and which they have no way of knowing about. And since they, obviously, cannot make a wrong decision, they need to take that burden away from Buffy and Giles, who will, of course, worship on the altar of Xanderdom, and give him the recognition that he always deserved. And when he defeats whatever foe that's put in front of him, he should of course, get the hottest person of the appropriate gender in his bed as a prize. It's only right.

I'd like to say that there's only one problem with that scenario, but there are several. The most significant of them being that it's damned boring.  You do anything along those lines and, after the second scene where Xander Saves Everyone, you'll be down to an audience of people just like you - fanboys who must have the Great Xander the best in everything. The rest of your readers will have left because you're boring them, and have reduced the characters to cardboard cutouts.

There's no reason to care, no reason to turn to the next web page (that is not simply a problem with Super!Xander fics, but Xander Sue does bring it into sharp relief). If defeating the enemy was as easy as opening a door, Why would anyone want to read? "Xander opened a door.  He opened another door, this one colored red.  And now a blue one.  Oh, my goodness, he was in front of a silver door - without a doorknob!  Happily, he reached into his pocket and pulled a doorknob out, inserted it in the door, and turned it, opening it. Success!"  You take all of the fun, both for the author and reader, to use Xander as the wonderful character that he is, having to put thought and effort into reaching his goals, and make him into a clown. (By the way, the effort not to have this happen is what's slowing my Green Pumpkins to a crawl.  You have to have an opponent that is equal to your protagonists in some form).

Worse, you ignore the rest of this fantastic ensemble of characters, or reduce them to either Xander's Cheering Section™, or two dimensional laughingstocks.  There are characters there with different strengths and weaknesses, why not use them?  Easier to let Xander Sue fix everything, I guess.

This has pretty much turned me off most Xander-centered fics, which is a shame, because I know that it can be done right.  While they aren't my favorites (I tend to be a B/W or B/W/T 'shipper), Prophecies? We don't need no Stinking Prophecies! and I Am What I Am both show that it can be done, and done well - it just takes effort. But what do we get? "Xander is related to Snape, and learns magic and potions easily," "Xander becomes (not just remembers) Mystique," "Xander becomes a close relative of the Addams Family," "Xander gets Steve Rogers Super-Soldier Serum," "Xander becomes Green Arrow."  Sheesh.  Make the effort, do the homework. Maybe even let Xander be the hero that he is, by letting him be human and work through these problems?  Enough said on that subject.

While reading through this thread, one of the issues brought up was hatred, and how the poster felt that it's always bad. I would have to disagree. Hatred is an ingrained part of the human condition, and as such, it has to have utility. Nothing that is part of us does not. If it had none, or was inimical to us, we would have weeded it out by now.

I would have to say that it's my opinion that hatred is of very limited use.  To me, the only time that it benefits you is when you have made a decision to eradicate a person or group of people from the Earth. When you come to that point, Hatred lets you do the necessary actions without hesitation or remorse, and, especially in resource poor situations, that may lead to your own line's survival.

However, in every other instance, it holds you back from making decisions and agreements that can benefit you. And so it is, at best, of limited utility.

Just my $0.02.
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Tactless
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« Reply #118 on: Tue, 19 Jun 12 06:04:42 »

Considering how many words two cents can buy, I'll throw in one and call it good.

This is not the complete answer, but it's a big part of it.

Once upon a time (sometime within the last fifteen years) someone wrote a Super!Xander story. A handful of people got a bug up their ass about it and wrote some stories where Xander was an idiot with one finger up his nose and another in an orifice somewhat south of that. Other people got a similar bug up their ass about the bashing and wrote more Super!Xander stories...this pattern rinses and repeats for the next fifteen years. You have noticed that they come in cycles haven't you?

A person on these forums (that I won't call out) has admitted to it proudly.

There are story types that I'm not fond of.

{Character} goes to {cross-over} solves everything (kills Voldemort, catches the killer, saves the whatsit of whosit, whatever) in two pages and then spends the rest of the story frolicking with their "soul-mate". You can tell that they're soul-mates because they start dry humping each other five minutes after meeting. (and hey, if it's a non-canon sexuality, that's okay because they popped a rainbow/non-rainbow pill off-screen)

There is a solution that works for me, but it might not be for everyone. When I find a story I don't like, I hit the back-space button. Granted, I've just wasted five, or ten minutes of my time, but then I would probably just waste them here being upset about harem fics, or something. (No offense Joe  Wink )
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